Callum: Today, I welcome Phil Manson to the In Reviews We Trust podcast. It's a special edition because it's the Jubilee weekend, and we’re having a '90s party at the Reviews.io office. I’m dressed in full tracksuit, bum bag, and gold trainers! Thanks for coming in, Phil. I know it’s been a bit hectic today, but I really appreciate it. How did you find your way into running PAASE, which is a Klaviyo agency?

Phil: Thanks, Callum. I spent nine years working on the tech side for a UK marketing automation company. About three years ago, I left that business and set up what was meant to be a lifestyle business—though, as you know, that never quite works out. It grew quickly, especially during the pandemic. We moved from a freelance model to what we are now, an agency. Klaviyo has been with us since day one. We started the business in July 2019, met the Klaviyo team in August 2019, and have been on that journey ever since.

Callum: Wow. Is that one person from Klaviyo still with them?

Phil: Yep, Phil Greenwood—he’s pretty well-known in the industry.

Callum: Definitely! So, you're a Klaviyo-only agency?

Phil: At the moment, yes. We were the first Elite Master in Europe for Klaviyo, which is great. But as we grow, we’re considering other platforms to avoid losing deals where brands might be using, say, Salesforce or Bloomreach. We see more competition coming into the email space over the next year, especially if we head into a recession. A lot of agencies are looking to add email marketing as a service to offer more value. So, we need to keep evolving and elevating our offering, particularly for mid-market brands.

Callum: I don’t think being Klaviyo-only limits you at all. We had Chase Dimond on the podcast, and he's also Klaviyo-focused. His expertise on flows and conversion optimization is top-notch.

Phil: That’s a good point. We’re also exploring whether to become a more general email agency or stay Klaviyo-specific. The Klaviyo platform has served us well, and we rate it highly. But understanding other platforms could give us more flexibility when recommending solutions to clients.

Callum: What kind of brands do you typically work with?

Phil: It varies. We work with brands looking to get more out of email and retention marketing. They usually have the basics—like a welcome series and cart abandonment—but they want to elevate their strategy. They might sell anything from dog food to Watt Bikes. The core structure remains the same, but the approach changes depending on the product and customer journey.

Callum: Are your clients already familiar with email marketing, or are they starting fresh?

Phil: Typically, they’ve done some email marketing themselves, but it’s at a basic level. They often have some automated flows like a welcome series and abandoned cart emails, but they haven’t optimized the overall customer journey. They’re ready to learn and scale, which is where we come in.

Callum: Let’s talk about the future—do you see brands shifting their focus more toward retention and email as budgets tighten?

Phil: Absolutely. We’re seeing a longer sales process now, but as we potentially head into a recession, brands will need to consolidate their spending. Email marketing offers great ROI, so there will be more competition in this space, especially as businesses look to reduce their ad spend.

Callum: What about SMS marketing? How’s that evolving for Klaviyo users?

Phil: It’s improving, particularly in the US where there’s better integration with help desks like Gorgias and Zendesk. In the UK, it’s a bit more limited, but the roadmap looks promising. Ideally, brands should have all their customer touchpoints, like email and SMS, integrated in one platform to avoid siloed campaigns.

Callum: And what about integrating SMS into email flows?

Phil: That’s where Klaviyo shines. You can create flows that combine email and SMS, allowing you to segment communication based on customer preferences. It’s much more efficient than running separate campaigns across different platforms.

Callum: You’ve been an absolute superstar, Phil! Thanks so much for coming on the podcast. For those who want to follow or connect with you, where’s the best place?

Phil: Thanks, Callum. LinkedIn is the best place to connect with me.

Callum: Brilliant. And for anyone listening, we’ll drop all the links and resources mentioned in the show notes. Thanks again, Phil, and I can’t wait to catch up next time!